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Unread 02-10-2012, 03:24 AM
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The Undying
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1R4D3L
I have been looking for a good LotRO-related use of my iPad.... I know you're focused on Android first, but if you do hopefully get to iOS, please don't forget the iPad - the expanded size compared to a phone would be awesome for this.

As for your specific questions, I agree that zone-based maps would be fine given the intended functionality. Something to consider, however - if you do get the "where am I now?" functionality working, and if the Compendium or a similar resource ever became a reliable source of quest lists and related coordinates, you could imagine the ability to choose a quest(s) that you're tracking and have the rings/shading show up in the app, essentially replacing the in-game parchment map altogether. That's a lot of ifs, I realize, but just from a design perspective, if that ever became possible, it would be nice to have the seamless map to show distant quest-related points. That's a big frustration with the in-game map - you have to hunt for the rings in the zone you're in, and then if you don't find them zoom out and look again. Of course you could also address that to some degree by putting an indicator on the appropriate edge of the screen to denote that the location is in another zone in that direction.

I personally also think that a seamless map helps with world immersion...if you never zoom out of the parchment map and look around you can easily lose track of where different zones are in relation to one another. A seamless map would promote that world awareness, and a simple button like "center on me" would help with "getting lost" on the map.

A point in favor of zones, however - instances, and especially housing neighborhoods (low priority perhaps, but would be nice to have the ability to flag friend/kin houses, etc.), would not really be able to be placed on the seamless map, meaning you'd have to build the zone-like interface anyways.

I'm probably rambling, but I also have a thought on the problem of communicating points between the client and the mobile app - what if you had a lightweight plugin running in the client that could record the point data in-game to a file (plugin settings file, whatever) that the Windows client (the one transmitting the "where am I now?" coordinates) could read and pass along? I personally don't like the idea of having to pick up my iPad and point it at the screen in order to load a new point via QR code. Not as bad with a phone perhaps, but then phones can't be used as a real-time map as easily as a tablet that can be docked and placed near the monitor, which is how I would hope to use this eventually.

Hope this was helpful feedback. I'm really looking forward to this!
First off, thanks for taking the time to reply and I'm sorry about the confusion. I should really stick to saying iOS instead of specifying a device. I do realize that both iPad and iPod Touch also use the same OS, and as Android has tablets as well, supporting multiple resolutions will be a forgone conclusion.

To be honest, beyond the basics, a lot of quest-related ideas still haven't been decided on - beyond the fact that I'd like to make it quest-based, so you're not stuck sifting through a drop down list of multiple items - such as in the ruslotro dynamic map. However, after reading this, I did take some time to think about handling those small amount of quests that do cover more than one zone, or at the very least, take place in a zone other than where you are. I was originally planning on including a sort of quest tracker panel any way, where clicking on a quest would display the information about it. However, one thing that could also be done is to provide a long-press context menu, that among other things could list the zone(s) and objective count(s) where this quest takes place in. Allowing for basically a jump-list functionality for navigating to the appropriate zone, or even just letting you know where you have to go. That being said, unfortunately, there is no reliable way to import the in-game quest tracker into the app. The plugin system doesn't support quests at this point, and like most server-stored data, there's no reliable way to get quest names from the memory of the client itself. So unfortunately, you'll have to manually add those quests until a more convenient way can be done.

As far as player location data goes - the most basic plan right now is to use a Windows helper application to grab the location/heading data from the client, and have it sent out using a specific port - to which the device could connect, and display real-time location/heading. Although the communication part hasn't been tested, that shouldn't have any issues related to it at all. Most of the "performance related" testing has more to do with another idea that may or may not show up later. Currently I have a test application (currently named LotROGPS) that does grab such data from the client - but I haven't gotten to the point where I can test the device communication part. As far as location data for other points go, I think you've got the right idea for the best solution. As much as I hate taking advantage of the necessary plugin "hack" - it most likely is the most user-friendly way of going about it. This "hack" I speak of is basically taking advantage of the ability for plugins to load/unload other plugins, and the fact that a plugin will always save its data prior to unloading. Essentially what happens is a "parent" plugin loads a child, gives the child information to save, and then unloads it - effectively resulting in real-time data saving. In this particular case, the parent plugin would load the child plugin, and monitor the chat window. When it recognizes the pattern of a /loc output, it will ask the player if he/she wants to add the point. If the player agrees, it would then send that information to the child plugin, and then unload it - causing the data to be immediately saved before reloading it. Then, the Windows helper app would detect that this file has been modified, and send the new point's data along with the player location data. When the device notices that the length of the data is larger than normal, it will trigger the "add point" dialogue.

Now about the map type itself...

One of the advantages of a strictly zone-based, "contained" map (i.e. with bounds keeping the map always within the screen), is that I can display pretty much anything in the same basic area. Whether it be an interior location, a zone, or even...an easily accessible overview map that could be viewed/interacted with at any time by doing something as simple as maybe double tapping on the title bar for instance. For example, let's say you were currently in Bree, and wanted to check out something in Mirkwood. Now, on a seamless map, you'd have to zoom out/pan, maybe tap on Mirkwood to center it, and then zoom back in. Now, to be fair, let's say that seamless map had "shortcuts" , where you could pick the zone from the list, and the map would automatically pan/focus on that zone. So the theoretical steps would be to open up the drop-down/spinner, scroll down, and pick Mirkwood from the list. Ok. final scenario. You're viewing the Bree map, so you double-tap the title bar (again, just an example), which displays a map of middle earth, and then you simply tap on Mirkwood. Which one do you think would be easier for you?

I don't want to make it seem like the only reason I requested feedback on it is so I can argue against one type or the other. I have however, said that I was leaning towards the zone-based map; but my ultimate goal is to provide an interface that provides for the quickest and easiest methods for the user/player to get to where they want and the information they need. So my initial reaction towards anything supporting the seamless map is to see if there's a way to achieve the same result, while making it just as easy or (preferably) easier, with the zone based map. So if I come up with an idea, such as the quest tracker jump list, or the overview map above, my goal isn't to prove anybody wrong; but to honestly see if my idea would compensate (or be even better) than the perceived advantage of the other type. I just wanted to make it clear that I hope for a discussion and not to win a debate .

One last thing - I would like to ultimately include some degree of a community editing/feedback system, not only to save myself time - but also because, if done right, it can be a great way for the community to basically help themselves. The reason I bring this up has to do with user-added points, and most notably housing neighborhoods. First, I'd like to stress that there will be a difference between a personally added note, and a submitted point. However, there are roughly (at this point) 300+ possible neighborhoods per racial neighborhood-per server, with some-odd 30 servers. This means that a particular house could have upwards of 30,000 points on it! With that in mind, I think it would be best to keep "who lives here" to personal notes, as opposed to the actual data feed. Other than that though, the only reason housing is instanced, is due to multiple neighborhoods. All 4 racial neighborhoods are visible in the world map, and as such, will be included within their respective zone - both in the terrain, and parchment blended into the main zone parchment. Just to clarify, because i'm not sure I explained what "blended" means: Essentially, since sub-zone parchment maps only exist because there is no zooming ability, one of the key benefits of a Google Map-style map, there's no reason to maintain separate sub-zones, when they can just be included within that zone's parchment. So the sub-zone parchment maps are placed and scaled so they correspond to the location on the terrain map, and then edited so the extra detail that they show is added to the main parchment map.

At any rate, I think I've gone on for long enough - I hope I touched on everything. Thanks again for the feedback, and like I said, if you have anything to add - please do so
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