LoTROInterface

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jaws 02-14-2007 04:25 PM

Auctioneer
 
Has anybody thought to start making an Auctioneer-type WoW addon for LOTRO yet?

Auctioneer, being free & open source, may be easily enough converted to the LOTRO game (says somebody with only VERY little programming experience).

Cairenn 02-14-2007 05:05 PM

While others that have had more opportunity to play with the Interface in LotRO are welcome to jump in here to correct me ....

LotRO doesn't allow "programming" of any form at this point. Purely skinning. Ie changing the graphics of the existing windows. So unless I'm completely wrong on that, or until such time as they (Turbine) open it up more, things like Auctioneer won't be possible.

jaws 02-14-2007 07:19 PM

Maybe, as a community, we could encourage them and show them how successful addons were in WoW. Heck Auctioneer was the only reason I stuck around as long as I did in the game....I was making about 80 G a week.

Frosty 02-15-2007 12:51 PM

I'll just jump in and confirm what Cairenn posted earlier.

Currently (emphasis on "currently") Turbine only allows skinning (image replacement) of the UI.

Full on scripting of UI's ala Auctioneer, Outfitter, or any other WoW mod involves having the game engine and the UI plugin communicate. The Turbine engine is not currently set up to do that - you can't just flip a switch and "hey, look at me scripting UIs!"

It's a significant development task to enable. However, with that being said, it's something that we all want to devote some time to doing. The "skinning" ability was something we needed to see if was even viable as a first step to full scriptability.

-P

Frosty 02-15-2007 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaws (Post 117)
Maybe, as a community, we could encourage them and show them how successful addons were in WoW. Heck Auctioneer was the only reason I stuck around as long as I did in the game....I was making about 80 G a week.

Community feedback is always a good motivator to change the functionality. So is mailing me some gold. I'm on the Sen'Jin server as.... nevermind.

-P

Cairenn 02-15-2007 12:58 PM

That's good to hear Frosty. :)

jaws 02-15-2007 04:11 PM

Hehe, too bad. I gave away several hundred gold to random people to get rid of it when I quit Wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 132)
Community feedback is always a good motivator to change the functionality. So is mailing me some gold. I'm on the Sen'Jin server as.... nevermind.

-P

It's also good that you clarified. Being a n00b at UI skinning I wasn't sure how WoW addons worked. Dissapointing to hear that there is no current way to do it.

Ghil 02-16-2007 07:38 PM

but it is nice to know that it will be (maybe) in the game later on.

A little question about it: if you do, will it use an already existing language like LUA or will it be your own scripting language? ;)

Frosty 02-17-2007 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghil (Post 171)
A little question about it: if you do, will it use an already existing language like LUA or will it be your own scripting language? ;)


At this point, it's way to early to tell. I suppose it will rely on the scripting language being able to receive events from an external source. I've done a little bit of looking into LUA, but I don't know the nuts and bolts of it enough to make any definite decisions.

-P

Ghil 02-18-2007 08:53 AM

alright thanks for the answer!

jaws 02-19-2007 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 173)
At this point, it's way to early to tell. I suppose it will rely on the scripting language being able to receive events from an external source. I've done a little bit of looking into LUA, but I don't know the nuts and bolts of it enough to make any definite decisions.

-P

It's one of the MANY the things that I love about this game: the developers actually reply to posts on a regular basis.

I'm really pleased that this is something that you guys may pursue once release has occurred (as opposed to flat-out saying 'it ain't gonna happen').

Thanks Frosty

Garland 03-23-2007 04:20 AM

I spotted this thread, linked from another. It's absolutely fantastic that the developers reply, if an Addon system is included I'd like to see it but hopefully one that won't allow for players having the game played for them.

I certainly would like to see visual Addons possible and perhaps even items of whimsy written up for it, I'd love to be able to translate over my Cadence Addon (WoW) for example, so that people could use that stage in the Shire to setup their own plays.

I stayed with Warcraft as long as I could stick it but really, it just wasn't the game for me and I was just staying to code for people more than anything, I just couldn't enjoy the game though and it wasn't worth paying for but I love LotRO and I'd be more than happy to use my coding talents to create works for it instead.

Hinton 03-27-2007 07:04 AM

Hey everyone! I too am intensely impressed with the quick replies from a member from Turbine. I'm one of those people that enjoy customizing anything I can, and an in-game User Interface is no exception. I would love to see the ability to make adjustments.

I enjoy fancy graphics as well, so being able to change the graphics alone is already a big plus. My only main thing I enjoy doing with any online game I play is to have an organized UI. It really helps the game play better overall. I like to (since I use a 1920x1200 WideScreen monitor) put 2 chat boxes to the bottom-left of my screen (1st one for Main & Misc stuffs, 2nd for Combat & Casting), then 4 hot-bars in the middle stacked on top of each other, then another chat box (for actual Chatting) and on the far bottom-right either a mini-map, active quest thingy ma jiggy or heck, why not... another chat box. :)

Oooh, and don't forget the numbers to go along with the health / power, etc... bars. That's always a huge help for us old-schoolers when it comes to playing these games. Numbers mean a lot more to me than a guesstimated bar that only serves as looking pretty when I'm in the heat of a battle.

P.S. - Please add support for the Logitech G15 Keyboard, anything will do, it's just too cool to use it, lol. Whoot for Frosty! & LoTRO!!

Frosty 03-27-2007 01:29 PM

Suppport for the Logitech G15 keyboard is in. We have your morale, power, and current landscape or dungeon area displayed in the LCD.

-P

Hinton 03-27-2007 02:37 PM

That's friggin' sweet Frosty! Turbine for the win!

Cripster 03-28-2007 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 387)
Suppport for the Logitech G15 keyboard is in. We have your morale, power, and current landscape or dungeon area displayed in the LCD.

-P

Yah you guys rock. im glad to see that the G15 is going to be used. Now that expensive keyboard i bought will be useful once again. But i have a ? about macros. what is the current standpoint on the use of them.

Frosty 03-28-2007 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cripster (Post 392)
Yah you guys rock. im glad to see that the G15 is going to be used. Now that expensive keyboard i bought will be useful once again. But i have a ? about macros. what is the current standpoint on the use of them.

Haha! You're not enticing me into the flame debate that is "macros". I've got my own opinions, but they're probably not vetted by the Company. Look for your answers on the official forums, padawan.

-P

Cairenn 03-28-2007 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 393)
Haha! You're not enticing me into the flame debate that is "macros". I've got my own opinions, but they're probably not vetted by the Company. Look for your answers on the official forums, padawan.

-P

*Chuckles at Frosty*

It's so much fun trying to get folks to understand the distinction between your personal and your "professional" opinion, isn't it? It's the same reason I never tell anyone what custom UIs I use. :)

Console 04-12-2007 11:46 AM

As a proud user and supporter of wowace.com, I'm glad that there is talk of a client side scripting engine in the works. It's also very refreshing to see constructive and pleasent posts from everyone including a Dev :eek:

My mind has been warped by having to click through thousands of childish "nerf" posts and fake patch notes :(

Please LOTRO.... be the answer :D

Zeryl 04-12-2007 09:38 PM

Thanks for the update Frosty.

The dev's over at wowroster.net have been talking about expanding into LOTRO (with our next major release) if the capability does come. This would be a great benefit to us, and I'm sure the "guilds" in LOTRO, if we could get some scripting capability like WoW currently has.

Krag 04-20-2007 11:22 AM

Wow.. it's nice to see Turbine devs involve din this kind of discussion.
Let me add my vote to the tally: it would be great to have scripting/modding capabilities that extend beyond the skinning.

I'm a software developer by trade, so I understand the complexity of this sort of task. Yes, even if the engine is in place for the development team, simply opening up the system to the average users out there is quite daunting.

I also have to say that the base GUI provided by LOTRO seems to cover most of what's needed (e.g. the social tab, the LFF system, the crafting, etc etc). However, we said the same thing when wow first came out... and in a short time we all realized that there was more to be added.

I think this is pretty normal. Covering 100%, or even 80% of the end-user needs is a difficult task. Sometimes, spending the time to develop an infrastructure that lets the users extend the system as they need is the best alternative.

Yeah, I'm rambling.. it's the same rambling I spill with my managers often and repeatedly :P

Is there a place on the official LOTRO website where we could/should post our thoughts in regard ?

Thanks,
~K

pheedbak 04-24-2007 03:42 PM

SWG and EQ2 Sales Manager
 
Hi there,

Just thought I'd add in my tuppence worth ;)
I am the developer of the Sales Vendor utilities for SWG and EQ2. Once scripting is enabled I shall create a version for LOTRO.

Keep up the good work, it's worth it :D

Dan

Bellrander 09-15-2008 01:33 PM

I'm curious, has there been any progress to incorporating LUA or another scripting language into LOTRO?

If the concern is about making the combat in the game "easy" then why not just set the API up so that you don't make the combat events available to the interpreter? That would still allow for most other mod types (like auction house, questing and such) to exist.

This thread seems kinda old so I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything?

Frosty 09-18-2008 11:53 AM

I've heard lots of things. Unfortunately they're not suitable for sharing with the community at large. About the only thing I can say is "still in development." And I won't be tricked into explaining that any further!

I don't think the issue has been about making the combat "too easy", it has been about the events shared with the UI and where the line is drawn (as you mention). I suspect (see how I inject personal opinion there so that this isn't considered a binding statement from The Company?) that the eventual scripting will be pretty tight with the events shared with the UI to begin with, then loosened up as we have more experience with the tools we develop.

-P

softserve 09-22-2008 01:53 PM

I'm glad to see a new post in this thread as I've been wondering about this more and more as MoM nears release. I'm really hopeful that something will happen there. I'm absolutely convinced that a huge reason as to why WoW has held on to such a large fanbase is due to game add-ons. I would really love to see something happen in LotRO since I play it most.

Honestly, at this stage I'd even be happy with some sort of LotRO take on WoW's Armory :). I really liked the addition of character signatures... I feel like in some ways the game just lacks things that make people feel more connected to it as there's so little to share with others.

Farinhin 01-31-2009 05:59 AM

G15 Lcd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 387)
Suppport for the Logitech G15 keyboard is in. We have your morale, power, and current landscape or dungeon area displayed in the LCD.

-P

I know this is off topic but I had to respond to this. Unfortunately, I am really disappointed with the functionality of the LCD screen on the G15. I would rather information that is readily available, but not displayed on the HUD. Examples would be an empty bag count, amount of cash, and other useful information. Since we have user frames and a radar giving the same info reflected on the LCD, the functionality is redundant. And redundancy is useless to me.

Just my 2-cents.

cipher_nemo 04-14-2009 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 387)
Suppport for the Logitech G15 keyboard is in. We have your morale, power, and current landscape or dungeon area displayed in the LCD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farinhin (Post 3211)
I know this is off topic but I had to respond to this. Unfortunately, I am really disappointed with the functionality of the LCD screen on the G15. I would rather information that is readily available, but not displayed on the HUD. Examples would be an empty bag count, amount of cash, and other useful information. Since we have user frames and a radar giving the same info reflected on the LCD, the functionality is redundant. And redundancy is useless to me.

I have two G15 keyboards (one at work and one on my gaming PC), but I don't use the LOTRO status because I have better things to do with it (ie: Vent and my own apps).

But now with Logitech's G19 right around the corner, may be Turbine can look towards developing something interesting here? The full color 320x240 LCD screen on this keyboard is more than capable of displaying a wicked variety of game data already available in the UI as the poster above mentioned.

Any thoughts on this, Frosty?

Frosty 04-22-2009 02:55 PM

We'd have to get the Logitechh G19 SDK and see what new functionality is offered and how much time it will take to integrate into our codebase. Then, if the LOTRO team decides they want a new display, it's fairly straightforward (note that I didn't say "easy") to hook up.

-P

cipher_nemo 04-22-2009 10:59 PM

Indeed, it may not be easy at all.

I'm surprised Logitech hasn't released the SDK yet for their G19. You'd think a company that is about to release a new piece of gaming hardware would release developer tools long before the product is released. Oh well, I guess we'll have to wait a while after the product comes to market.

Thanks for the info, Frosty. :)

P.S. The software for it is available here, but I don't know if this includes an SDK or not. However, it does include an emulator to test applications without needing a G19 keyboard.

Wicked Mouse 04-24-2009 10:56 AM

Going back ON topic: I'm pleased to see that the LOTRO UI isn't like in WoW. This way everyone is equal in its tools. I don't like to be almost obliged to use certain plug-ins because otherwise I won't be able to make as much money as I could, because with it people don't have to think, or not be able to use skill after skill exactly in the right order and at the right time, so to be maybe excluded from (pick-up) groups, since I won't be able to "keep up".

The quest guide is a nice feature that most likely is "borrowed" from WoW, which enbales people who have difficulty understanding the English very well, but still like to play to finish quests with less difficulty, or to make it a 'no-brainer'. But the thing here is, is that everyone has it. So everyone has the same tools, so everyone is treated equally and no need to download and update all kinds of mods and add-ons.

If certain features HAVE to be implemented, I'd say: let Turbine do that.

cipher_nemo 04-24-2009 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked Mouse (Post 3335)
Going back ON topic: I'm pleased to see that the LOTRO UI isn't like in WoW. This way everyone is equal in its tools.

(...)

So everyone has the same tools, so everyone is treated equally and no need to download and update all kinds of mods and add-ons.

UI Mods, and especially ones written by the community, don't have to add features unavailable in the original UI. People associate "mods" with something like WoW has, which is a completely open UI.

Mods could be handled quite differently, allowing a lot of different ways to show the same information available to everyone, but without offering mods the ability to create their own information.

As for trying to associate game-play "fairness" with the same UI for everyone, that's a big failure. Everyone likes their UI a little different, just like everyone wants their UI elements moved around and placed differently. Is it unfair that I run LOTRO with 3 monitors via a Matrox Triple-head device? I get far more real-estate for moving UI elements out of my middle monitor. Some might consider that unfair, but that's life. I put more money into my gaming rig than you. Alternatively, do I complain that teenagers play LOTRO who have better reflexes than I and are generally better at PvP? No, that's their advantage.

Don't argue "fairness" because there is no level playing field for it in an MMO.

Wicked Mouse 04-25-2009 08:47 PM

I'm talking about opening information and ways that isn't available without it. I don't mean rearranging existing UI elements. That you can do already.

cipher_nemo 04-27-2009 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked Mouse (Post 3340)
I'm talking about opening information and ways that isn't available without it. I don't mean rearranging existing UI elements. That you can do already.

You can't take your morale/power along with everyone else's in a raid/fellowship and display it in any way you want without a mod. Sure, you can skin it, move it around a little, but that's about it.

Can you display percentage instead of numbers? No. Can you get an average outlook of the entire raid's moral in one simplified bar without a mod? No. Can you have a dynamic, updated display of clickable names for those who are low on power or morale without a mod? No.

These would be mods to use the data you're already given and display it in different ways. That's the definition of a mod. As for WoW mods, Blizzard opened it up to grab data the regular UI doesn't use. It doesn't have to be that way with Turbine's LOTRO, but it can be much more dynamic than the current UI.

OddGamer 07-04-2009 03:02 PM

Hope this comes in.
 
I'd love to see this sort of scripting. There's really only two mods I ever cared about from WoW that I'd love to see here.

One was the inspiration for this whole thread, Auctioneer. When I pick up something in the field I generally have no idea what to sell it for at auction, and other sites find it impossible to collect that sort of information. This makes figuring out a good price almost impossible for a lot of items. More than that, for most people this is a game, not a way of life. It'd be nice to have a more reasonable idea of the realistic value of an item, what people are actually buying it for, than just guess-work or a lot of experience.

The second one has to do with bags. There was one called Bagnon that allowed you to rearrange you bag display a lot and, more importantly, allowed you to treat all your bags as one huge thing so that when you were looking for something it wasn't a pain in the neck trying to remember which bag it's in, you just opened them all at once and saw everything. It also made it easier to rearrange items in packs. One could choose the number of items in a row, the size of the display (I routinely made it smaller), the background. Another thing it did was allow one to see what they had in the bank from a distance, which is mostly a time saver since that way you didn't have to go back to town to find out if you had X or not there, you could just look.

I guess I used couple more a lot as well, Reagent info and Mob info. Reagent Info tells me what something is used for, but LotRO does that already. MobInfo, though, gives a good guess at HP, resistances, and whether or not they run, as well as things they commonly drop. I could live without those, though, since LotRO gives the HP which is mostly what I cared about.

Anyway, if here's hoping that scripting shows up in the next expansion! I'd like to see these sorts of things there.

rushl 07-06-2009 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddGamer (Post 3423)
The second one has to do with bags. There was one called Bagnon that allowed you to rearrange you bag display a lot and, more importantly, allowed you to treat all your bags as one huge thing so that when you were looking for something it wasn't a pain in the neck trying to remember which bag it's in, you just opened them all at once and saw everything. It also made it easier to rearrange items in packs.

While LOTRO doesn't allow any scripting, you might be interested in my bag mod. It dramatically reduces bag real estate, and appears as a seamless inventory. You can check it out here!

rushl

Miskaton 08-20-2009 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 131)
Full on scripting of UI's ala Auctioneer, Outfitter, or any other WoW mod involves having the game engine and the UI plugin communicate. The Turbine engine is not currently set up to do that - you can't just flip a switch and "hey, look at me scripting UIs!"

Some things I'd like to recommend that you think about as this rumbles around at Turbine World Corporate HQ....
  • Don't write your own language (talk to the folks that did Second Life for how that turns out)
  • LUA is, of course, a great option, which is why Blizzard chose it. But there are other embeddable scripting languages.
  • Start small. There's no reason to support every aspect of your UI on first release. I think auction house statistics trackers and bag mods are probably the two things people will clamor for the most... consider supporting those first.
  • If there are security concerns, just drop support for the areas of concern until they're worked out. I'd rather have scripting capabilities where it doesn't break the game and get the other stuff later.
  • Consider creating your own distribution and repository system that requires a particular licensing scheme that is reasonable for collaborative development and external hosting of project development where that might help. This avoids lots of community angst and drama.
  • As far as auction house mods go, please do a better job of providing basic stats to mods than WoW does. Having to "scan" the auction house is a load on the servers, and a pointless bit of busy-work for players.

I'm heartened to hear that this is being planned. I'm in the middle of writing a fairly lengthy review of LOTRO for my blog, and while almost all of it is positive, this is one big area that I find unsatisfying. I'll definitely make note of the future possibilities, now.

Murazorz 08-20-2009 09:50 PM

I most wholeheartedly agree with Miskation in this thread and what's mentioned in this thread.

I really hope they bring scripting into the game in the next expansion. In my experience it creates a community and Turbine can actually "outsource" part of the UI work to that community.

What I don't want is boss-mods a la BigWigs. Having boss-mods is actually both good and bad, it enables the developers to make harder or more advanced fights, because players can rely on the mod to catch it all and warn you, while it would be almost impossible to keep abreast of all the factors without a mod. The bad thing is obviously that people don't have to learn the fight the hard way and so on, and it dumb things down. And I must say that I like that the fights are a bit less hectic in LotRO than some of fights in WoW.

One of the things I liked the most about WoW's modding was the ability to track buffs/debuffs in an easy way, so I knew when to refresh them without pearing at a 4x4 bitmap. And of course the ability to completely modify my UI.

Farinhin 12-06-2009 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miskaton (Post 3502)
Some things I'd like to recommend that you think about as this rumbles around at Turbine World Corporate HQ....
  • Don't write your own language (talk to the folks that did Second Life for how that turns out)
  • LUA is, of course, a great option, which is why Blizzard chose it. But there are other embeddable scripting languages.
  • Start small. There's no reason to support every aspect of your UI on first release. I think auction house statistics trackers and bag mods are probably the two things people will clamor for the most... consider supporting those first.
  • If there are security concerns, just drop support for the areas of concern until they're worked out. I'd rather have scripting capabilities where it doesn't break the game and get the other stuff later.
  • Consider creating your own distribution and repository system that requires a particular licensing scheme that is reasonable for collaborative development and external hosting of project development where that might help. This avoids lots of community angst and drama.
  • As far as auction house mods go, please do a better job of providing basic stats to mods than WoW does. Having to "scan" the auction house is a load on the servers, and a pointless bit of busy-work for players.

I'm heartened to hear that this is being planned. I'm in the middle of writing a fairly lengthy review of LOTRO for my blog, and while almost all of it is positive, this is one big area that I find unsatisfying. I'll definitely make note of the future possibilities, now.

I was thinking something on the lines of a very limited amount of support. This could be done by forcing the mods to be called through a built in filter, and if it has anything not supported it will inform you and close the mod. I am not really wanting a ton of mods out there. They were both the best, and the worst thing about WoW after all. I do think it would be nice to have some informational mods though. I would be happy with things like auction statistics, a list of what is in my bank at any given time (for tradeskills), and maybe a modification to the craft window that will show (maybe in parenthesis) what finished product I could make out of the raw materials I have (bank and on hand would be nice).

Last thing I would like is a shopping list type of concept (could be part of the quest/accomplishment tracker). Basically, you could select an item to track in your craft panel and it would calculate the materials needed to make it, and then keep a list of what you need up.

Example of how this would work is as follows.
Lets say I want to make "Heavy Cloth Armour." I tell the game to track that recipe. It then quickly calculates that it takes the following.
  • 1x leather binding,
  • 2x leather pads,
  • 1x bold of rough cloth,
  • and the crit item (could be excluded if master level not attained).

It then checks to see what I have of the listed items. Let us say that I have 1x leather pad. It would then display that I need the following
  • bought:
    0/1 - bold of rough cloth
  • crafted:
    1/2 - leather pad
    - 2/4 - Piece of light leather
    0/1 leather binding
    - 0/2 - Piece of light leather
  • Raw:
    2/6 - light hide
  • Crit Item
    Whatever it is now

As the items on the raw list are attained they would be checked off as it does with accomplishments/quests. If I were to buy one of the crafted items needed it were to reduce the "Raw" needed by the necessary amount and check off the item. Let us say that I get another leather pad from an alt. It would then remove the item from the list (like a quest does), and change the raw materials to "4/6 - light hide."



Now these do not need to be made by the community. I would be perfectly happy with them being made officially and released in a volume (3 would be good) or expansion.


Just my 2-cents.

@Frosty,
If you can only get one done, please consider the idea for the craft tracking. It will make crafting less tedious (which is the reason I have given up on it for now).

Mirarkitty 02-12-2010 04:08 AM

Personally I'd be happy just if I just could buy stuff from the crafting window - or filter the vendor on the current recipe - instead of browsing through the vendor shop eternally.

Not that I would mind a really, really useful crafting solution...


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