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  #1  
Unread 06-23-2012, 05:09 AM
Riplak Riplak is offline
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Addon Equivalents

Back in the day when WoW was good, I was a top-ranked tank. Addons are pretty helpful in making that happen. When I quit WoW and went on to Lotro some time after, they didn't have support for plugins and it was a bit disappointing. I come back to this game very recently to find out they do and that's great! However, I can't find many addons here that match a function or style of an addon I had for WoW.

So I come to the people who've been around Lotro in my absence and might know what I'm talking about. I'm looking for addons like:


Omen - an action bar addon that displayed the remaining CD of skills on it's icon.

IceHuD - a resource addon that displayed HP and the user's class resource on either side of the character in vertical curved bars.

Recount - an addon that provided a small window listing DPS, healing, damage taken, interrupts, threat, etc. for your raid.

Bartender - another action bar addon that allowed you to VERY extensively modify all your action bars.


These 4 UI addons were amazing additions to someone's toolset, and it'd be great to have them or something like them on here. Appreciate any help finding these!
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  #2  
Unread 06-23-2012, 06:02 AM
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Adra Adra is offline
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Hi, I didn't played wow, so i dunno how far these addons are from what you're looking for :

HP curved bar (not maintained any more) : http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...-Palantir.html

DPS/Heal meter : http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo..._Analysis.html

Custom action bars : http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...TonicBars.html

Last edited by Adra : 06-23-2012 at 06:09 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 06-23-2012, 07:29 AM
Riplak Riplak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adra
Hi, I didn't played wow, so i dunno how far these addons are from what you're looking for :

HP curved bar (not maintained any more) : http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...-Palantir.html

DPS/Heal meter : http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo..._Analysis.html

Custom action bars : http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...TonicBars.html
Yeah, I already saw that one and my entire day was ruined. Thanks for the others though!
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  #4  
Unread 06-24-2012, 11:15 AM
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Hyoss Hyoss is offline
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As a top-ranked WoW-player myself, I would like to warn you warn you about having too much of a WoW approach to playing this game, it will will hurt you in places. Both in terms of your playing performance and in terms of enjoying the game. Some things just work differently here, and requiring equivalents of particular addons for playing makes me believe you are making some of the same errors I did when I switched to playing LOTRO. Remarkably, there were and are many LOTRO players who did and do all available content without any addons, because none were available in the past, and they did it will all the hurdles the default LOTRO UI presents (like very small debuff icons on you you have to react to, for example.)

There are no addons like Omen - you have to manage your threat by developing a 6th sense for it. It is not even possible to write one, as no necessary APIs and/or data are available for addon authors.

There is also no addon like Bartender that has Bartender's full funtionality - custom toolbars from any addon are not replacements for the ingame quickslot bars and cannot be keybinded in LOTRO. You can only resize, move around the ingame bars and switch their orientation between horizontal/vertical. Additional plugin toolbars are helpful for skills you only use by clicking them.

CombatAnalysis is a nicely made combat log parser that will help you evaluate your own performance - but only your own combat log is available in your client, so you will not be able to compare with others. I believe this is intended by the developers, as they do not want discrimination based on "playing performance by numbers" in their game.

For Morale (it is not called HP in this game) I suggest moving your character panel into the lower middle instead of the default upper corner, helps tremendously.

Last edited by Hyoss : 06-24-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-24-2012, 11:47 AM
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daimon daimon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogumil
There is also no addon like Bartender that has Bartender's full funtionality - custom toolbars from any addon are not replacements for the ingame quickslot bars and cannot be keybinded in LOTRO. You can only resize, move around the ingame bars and switch their orientation between horizontal/vertical. Additional plugin toolbars are helpful for skills you only use by clicking them.
Only way to make it remotely work with the custom toolbars and keybindings is to have your keybinds set to the stock toolbars and then making custom toolbars alike. After that disabling the stock toolbars from the options (mind that you can't make the shortcut one bar vanish, only with a custom skin that is possible). That's how I've cleared my UI from the clutter, it takes quite a bit work though but works pretty well if you use keybindings.
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  #6  
Unread 06-25-2012, 03:46 AM
moebius92 moebius92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogumil
There are no addons like Omen - you have to manage your threat by developing a 6th sense for it. It is not even possible to write one, as no necessary APIs and/or data are available for addon authors.
Guardian threat numbers during Mirkwood, I think. The data's gettable. It's just most of the time no one bothers to get it.

You can track skill usage, results, and targets via the combat log.

Generally you only have to watch out for losing aggro to DPS. And since DPS is primarily generating their threat through damage, you can track that based on the amount of damage the mob has taken.

It's perfectly possible to write a threat meter (assuming some allowances for inaccuracies, due to the fact that the API isn't really designed to do it directly). Not that I'd hold my breath on it happening any time soon.
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  #7  
Unread 06-26-2012, 09:31 AM
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Hyoss Hyoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moebius92
Guardian threat numbers during Mirkwood, I think. The data's gettable. It's just most of the time no one bothers to get it.

You can track skill usage, results, and targets via the combat log.

Generally you only have to watch out for losing aggro to DPS. And since DPS is primarily generating their threat through damage, you can track that based on the amount of damage the mob has taken.

It's perfectly possible to write a threat meter (assuming some allowances for inaccuracies, due to the fact that the API isn't really designed to do it directly). Not that I'd hold my breath on it happening any time soon.
Well, so it is possible to track the amount of threat you generate on a mob by parsing the combat log. WoW threat meters used to work like this a long time ago, before the necessary APIs were made available. However, there are several issues here:

- you need accurate and ideally always up-to-date data how much threat a skill generates, could be accomplished by lots of testing and frequent addon updates
- this does not work very well in situations when there are several enemy NPCs with identical names - they show up under the same name in the combat log (or is there some hidden meta data available via APIs that allows you to differentiate between NPCs?)
- probably most important: the biggest benefit of a threat meter is not there; you only have your own combat log, but not the combat log of other fellowship/raid members - and no way of knowing whether their generated threat on an NPC is bigger or smaller than yours
- even if you were able to somehow accomplish this, you would need accurate data for generated threat for every skill of every class, so you can track threat for all fellowship/raid members
- parsing the combat log of 12 or even 24 raid members and managing a threat table for them would very probably become a huge resource hog

So while some data can be gathered and an addon can be created, there is no Omen equivalent, i.e. the feature to track the threat generated by others is not there/data cannot be gathered so far.

Last edited by Hyoss : 06-26-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 06-26-2012, 09:48 AM
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Hyoss Hyoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daimon
Only way to make it remotely work with the custom toolbars and keybindings is to have your keybinds set to the stock toolbars and then making custom toolbars alike. After that disabling the stock toolbars from the options (mind that you can't make the shortcut one bar vanish, only with a custom skin that is possible). That's how I've cleared my UI from the clutter, it takes quite a bit work though but works pretty well if you use keybindings.
Daimon, can you please elaborate how this works, and which quickslot addon you used?
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  #9  
Unread 06-26-2012, 01:47 PM
moebius92 moebius92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogumil
Well, so it is possible to track the amount of threat you generate on a mob by parsing the combat log. WoW threat meters used to work like this a long time ago, before the necessary APIs were made available. However, there are several issues here:

- you need accurate and ideally always up-to-date data how much threat a skill generates, could be accomplished by lots of testing and frequent addon updates
- this does not work very well in situations when there are several enemy NPCs with identical names - they show up under the same name in the combat log (or is there some hidden meta data available via APIs that allows you to differentiate between NPCs?)
- probably most important: the biggest benefit of a threat meter is not there; you only have your own combat log, but not the combat log of other fellowship/raid members - and no way of knowing whether their generated threat on an NPC is bigger or smaller than yours
- even if you were able to somehow accomplish this, you would need accurate data for generated threat for every skill of every class, so you can track threat for all fellowship/raid members
- parsing the combat log of 12 or even 24 raid members and managing a threat table for them would very probably become a huge resource hog

So while some data can be gathered and an addon can be created, there is no Omen equivalent, i.e. the feature to track the threat generated by others is not there/data cannot be gathered so far.
I'll agree, it's a lot of work. It's doable though.

You don't actually need to track other people's threat. Let me explain how I handled threat in Mirkwood. Back then, I'd rather messily estimated that precise blow generated 1700 threat. So what I would do when I was tanking would be to say... alright, I know there are three DPSers - and I expect them all to do roughly the same amount of damage. Thus, for any mob (assuming focus fire), I expect no one will do more than 33% of the damage done to the mob. So for each mob, I'd divide it's morale by 3, divide that by 1700, round up, and that was the number of precise blows I'd have to hit it with to get an aggro lock. And then I'd hit each mob with the number of precise blows needed, and then go read a book for the rest of the fight. (Well, okay, technically what I did was multiple 1700 by 3, say that was roughly 5000, and then divide the mobs' morale by 5000 - same math, but easier to do in your head.)

So for the addon side, you'd need to say, alright the mob has n morale, I expect the most damage someone will do to a mob is x% of its morale. Therefore, I need to generate enough threat to hold aggro against n * x% damage. And you just keep track of how close to an aggro lock you are.

You can even be clever and do it somewhat dynamically. What you do is you set the x%, based on your group composition, and then n_name based on unique mob names (bosses, really). Then what you do is you make a bar that sits directly above the morale bar:

|---threat---|
|---morale---|

...and then you track the amount of threat you've generated on mobs named whatever (call that t_name), and then you compare t_name / x% versus n_name - which tells you alright I've generated enough threat to hold the mob through p% of its morale. (Let me put some actual numbers so there's an example - say the boss Qwz has 1000000 morale, I expect at most anyone will do 20% of the total damage, and my threat counter says I've generated at least 100000 threat. So that's enough threat to hold against 500000 total damage done to the mob, which means my threat bar should be 50% filled in.) And then you by just comparing the boss's morale versus the threat bar, you can see if you're falling behind or ahead on threat, or whatever.

And yeah, this only works on bosses - but I would assume that would be the main concern, really. Regular mobs die too quickly to worry too much about.
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  #10  
Unread 06-27-2012, 04:36 AM
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Hyoss Hyoss is offline
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I am not arguing there are ways to track or estimate threat generated, it has been done. My main point is there is no addon like Omen with it's full set of features.

This probably comes down to expectations about the feature set of a threat addon. I agree a threat helper could be created, and some players would surely find it useful. But as of now, just not enough features are possible for me to get use out of it ;-)

Edit: Typo

Last edited by Hyoss : 06-30-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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